The first thing I notice about Alex Salmond when I meet him for our interview is the badge pinned to his lapel. Depicting the Scottish saltire flag side by side with the Irish tricolour, it seems to speak of a man proud of the strong connections between Ireland and Scotland. Indeed the countries are, despite differing histories, “sisters, not even cousins. You are the blood of our blood, the bone of our bone”, he tells me.
Indeed, this warm relationship with Ireland seems to persist despite the lack of public support the Irish government gave to Scotland’s independence last year. During his talk with the Trinity Law Society following our interview, he said: “I don’t think it’s easy for states, even ones as close as Scotland and Ireland, to make an explicit political declaration”, regarding something as contentious as the Scottish referendum.
Yet it’s not forgiveness in defeat that characterises Alex Salmond. When speaking to him, you often have to remind yourself that this is the man who very publicly lost a referendum. This is the man who resigned after failing to convince the population of his beloved country that they should break away from the rest of the United Kingdom. But during his talk, in a filled to capacity Graduates Memorial Building, Salmond is bullish about the continued success of the SNP under Nicola Sturgeon.
And why should he not be? As he mocked many of the political figures who opposed the separatist campaign, reeling off a litany of names from Ed Miliband (“where is he now?”), to Jim Murphy, former MP and former head of Scottish Labour, and Douglas Alexander, former Labour shadow foreign minister, it’s hard not to be convinced that he is a man without a political expiry date.
On many occasions during the talk, in which he was interviewed by Irish Times journalist Mark Hennessy, he expressed confidence that despite the defeat in the referendum last September, he is on the right side of history. As he put it, eventually “the train is going to end up at the independence station”.
He had the words, “The rocks will melt with the sun before I allow tuition fees to be imposed on Scottish students”, carved into stone at Heriot Watt University, Edinburgh.
Speaking to him, it is hard not to be impressed by that unapologetic self-belief. This must have been evident even in his student days at the University of St Andrews, when it was “a very anglicised university, a very right-wing university, and I was a left-wing Scottish nationalist, which was an interesting juxtaposition”. This involvement in the SNP, when it was still a fringe party, taught him how to “campaign from a minority position, to become a majority”.
Yet when it mattered, last September, Salmond proved unable to deliver that majority. In the days before referendum, one could have been forgiven for believing that Scotland was on the brink of something historic. It was a nationalist movement that, as Salmond commented during his talk, even had the President of the United States calling on Scotland to see sense.
This defeat, of course, was not the end for the SNP, with the party winning 56 MPs in Westminster in the UK general election in May. The atmosphere in the GMB, as Salmond spoke, gave the event the feel of a victory lap. Indeed, he received a rapturous round of applause in a reply to a question on the ongoing refugee crisis facing Europe: “The balance of opinion in Scotland is that we should accept our responsibility for the chaos that has been unveiled in the Middle East.”
Salmond holds his left-wing credentials close to his chest, mentioning and quoting James Connolly on numerous occasions during our interview and the subsequent talk. One of the most famous examples of his defiance to the Conservatives came on his penultimate day as First Minister last year, when he had the words, “The rocks will melt with the sun before I allow tuition fees to be imposed on Scottish students”, carved into stone at Heriot Watt University, Edinburgh.
When I ask him about the potential introduction of UK-style student loans system in Ireland, ahead of the publication of upcoming government working group report, Salmond is adamant on the value of free education: “It’s one of the things I’m proudest about, it’s one of the things I’m passionate about, I don’t believe you should charge for education.”
The Scottish free education system, heralded by the SNP, has been criticised recently for failing to improve access to third-level education for those from the poorest backgrounds. Salmond concedes this, stating: “We still have a way to go in terms of access for all our citizens to university, but we’re talking about levels of education and university that are much higher than any society in Europe.”
Salmond however, concedes no ground on another highly contentious area of SNP education policy. The Scottish Universities Governance Bill has received criticism from numerous Scottish academic and was indeed criticised by Louise Richardson, Vice Chancellor in waiting at the University of Oxford, and current Vice Chancellor of the University of St Andrews a talk at the Royal Irish Academy recently. The bill would require chairs of governing bodies to be chosen through an election, and would require university governing bodies to include at least two members directly elected by staff, and two members each nominated by trade unions, students’ unions and alumni associations.
Addressing the criticism by Richardson, who also spoke at a talk organised by the Trinity Caledonian Society recently, Salmond said: “[Richardson] should reflect on the fact that some of the changes the Scottish government are trying to introduce to university governance, which she so resents, are attempting to address the manifest failings of our universities, in attracting and allowing to be part of that wonderful education, students from the poorest backgrounds in Scotland.”
She hasn’t done enough to enable working-class poor students to have access to Scotland’s oldest university, and frankly my old university should think shame of itself.
Indeed, Salmond was heavily critical of Richardson of her failings to improve access to third-level education: “She hasn’t done enough to enable working-class poor students to have access to Scotland’s oldest university, and frankly my old university should think shame of itself”, adding “even a St Andrews University mathematician could count the number of working class Scots from poor backgrounds in the most deprived areas at St Andrews without taking their shoes off.”
For Salmond, any criticism of the bill is “rubbish”, and stems from academics that are scared of “a modest element of democracy” introduced into university decision making. The fact that, as he says, “the universities serve a public purpose, are funded, largely, by the public, and therefore the people have a right to express a view” on how they’re run, means that any opposition to the bill is largely based on a misreading of the bill.
Talking to Salmond, and listening to him speak about the independence campaign, is a powerful reminder of the nationalism that has helped propel the SNP towards their dominance of Scottish politics. As we edge closer to 1916 in Ireland, all talk begins to converge on the Easter Rising. It was interesting to hear the thoughts of Salmond on the importance of nationalism in 21st century politics.
Ireland and Scotland, to him “have had different experiences. We’d had a 100 years of Scottish nationalism in a modern form, being expressed through institutional claims for a devolution, for home rule, for parliament”, culminating eventually in an independence referendum without “so much as a nose bleed, never mind a lost life”.
However, this slow march to near independence was a result, according to Salmond, of “ballot box opportunities”, with the country’s experience of British colonialism very different compared to Ireland: “Your pursuit and progress towards independence comes from different routes and different mechanisms. But that doesn’t mean that either route is valid or invalid, just different”.
It’s clear however that for Salmond, there is only one route ahead for Scotland, and that is independence. As the title of his book says, “the dream will never die”. In his eyes, the dream of an independent Scotland will not be a dream for long.
